Photography Thailand Forum

[ckilkus]

Hi all!

I'm an american fashion photographer that has relocated to Bangkok for the next six months or so.  I have been working some editorial and looking into shooting catalog.  I'm really surprised at how low the catalog day rates are though.  It looks like a day of catalog for department stores here pays only 15,000 baht. Can that be right?  Even by Thai standards that must be awfully low?  Especially considering the models on the very same jobs are making about a minimum of 40,000 baht.  A photographer's fee should NEVER be lower than the model's fee!  How did this happen?  Is fashion photography so undervalued in Bangkok?  Is it because there is too much competition? 

It seems like the smart thing to do is for the professional fashion photographers here to insist on higher rates, and if the client won't pay it then don't do the job, and let them book an inexperienced or beginner photographer.  They would quickly learn that a good fashion photographer is something to be valued, and then raise the rates accordingly. 

Luckily, I have the luxury to go back to the states every once in a while and do jobs, including catalogs which pay a minimum of 100,000 to 200,000 baht a day.  So I'm happy just to shoot editorial here for my portfolio.  But photographers trying to make a living in Bangkok should really band together and force the market to understand their value.  Otherwise, at a certain point it's going to be almost impossible for Bangkok to support a professional level photography market.

[Marc Schultz]

Hi there,

I don't mind this post because you are only having a polite rant here and not asking for any commercial advice, but please have a look at the post on Usage & Etiquette at the following link under the Forum Rules section when you have a moment:

http://www.photographythailand.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Thank you.

[bjorn slis]

I'm sorry but I do find this post offensive. And I don't understand you comparing rates in the US with rates here. Do you pay 40 baht for a good meal in america ? Do they pay waitresses 7000 baht a month in america ? Can you buy a decent house there for 40.000 dollar ? And why is it that a photographer's fee should NEVER be lower than a model's fee ? is there a law for that ?

[Paul Whitehead]

....pays only 15,000 baht. [a day] ......

Thats a lot of money here (x 24days = 360k/M) - an awful lot of money. I do admit I know nothing about the subject matter but I think I may go out and buy a book on it now (.....just jesting).

[agitlits]

Hi all!

I'm an american fashion photographer that has relocated to Bangkok for the next six months or so.  I have been working some editorial and looking into shooting catalog.  I'm really surprised at how low the catalog day rates are though.  It looks like a day of catalog for department stores here pays only 15,000 baht. Can that be right?  Even by Thai standards that must be awfully low?  Especially considering the models on the very same jobs are making about a minimum of 40,000 baht.  A photographer's fee should NEVER be lower than the model's fee!  How did this happen?  Is fashion photography so undervalued in Bangkok?  Is it because there is too much competition? 

It seems like the smart thing to do is for the professional fashion photographers here to insist on higher rates, and if the client won't pay it then don't do the job, and let them book an inexperienced or beginner photographer.  They would quickly learn that a good fashion photographer is something to be valued, and then raise the rates accordingly. 

Luckily, I have the luxury to go back to the states every once in a while and do jobs, including catalogs which pay a minimum of 100,000 to 200,000 baht a day.  So I'm happy just to shoot editorial here for my portfolio.  But photographers trying to make a living in Bangkok should really band together and force the market to understand their value.  Otherwise, at a certain point it's going to be almost impossible for Bangkok to support a professional level photography market.

I actually agree with Bjorn here. You cannot compare rates in Thailand to those in the US or any other western country. It's non-sense. Why should you be paid more if a local photographer who can achieve the same result or may be an even better one for lower price? If you really want to make that much then you have to prove you are better than what others can offer. People will pay you what you are worth in the market. If you really really good then they will pay you more than everyone else. This goes for every corner of the glob, for every trade!

Just my 2 satang worth.

Alex

[ckilkus]

Hi!  Sorry if I offended anyone with my post!  It was directed at the pro photographers that work in Bangkok, and I hope they understood where I was coming from.  I never meant to compare rates in the USA and Thailand.  That would be rather disingenious!  Of course the cost of living in Thailand is MUCH lower than the states!

My point, which it seemed most people missed, is that at 15,000 baht a day it's going to be difficult to foster a professional photography business.... even here in Bangkok!  Think about it, things like rent on studio, equipment upkeep, assistants, etc., etc. cost a lot of money. Keep in mind, a photographer that does this kind of work only works a catalog 4 to 8 days at the most a month.  And then there is a LOT of pre-production (location scouting, propping, set design) and post-production (image prep / retouching).  These are things this client will not pay for seperately and have to be considered into a day rate.  And then, also keep in mind that a company like Central Department Stores (for instance) makes around 360 million baht a year or more.  The fact is that a client like this has found they are able to take advantage of photographers in this market, because the photographers let them get away with it.  I lived in Manila, a place with a much smaller photography market.  But the photographers were strong about demanding decent rates and turning down jobs that didn't pay well, and therefore clients would pay a mininum of $1,000 to $1,500 US a day for the same kind of work that pays 15,000 baht a day here in Bangkok.

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me ultimately because of my situation.  That is why I am not working for rates as low as this, I just turn the jobs down.  It's just an observation from someone who has worked in a few markets around the world and seen how the healthy ones are nurtured by the pro photographer community.  All it really takes to bring the rates up is for professional photographers to demand a bit more money by turning down the jobs that pay too little.  It will make the market here for the pros SO much more healthy!

So again, sorry if people took me the wrong way.  I love being in Bangkok and I love photography, and so it would be great if photography was respected here by the clients the way it is in most other markets, thats all.

[thebelge]

I understand what you mean....

It's true here most of photographers accept too little rate/day.

Fred

[danielc]

This is the shape of things to come. Having been here for 9 months, I found it dead interesting that here the Stylist calls the shot on the whole shoot, which is unheard of elsewhere in the world.

Granted, the stylist is an important part, but to give them autonomous control over all aspects of the shoot, why don't they pick up a camera and shoot it themselves?

The majority of my clients are based in NYC and London, and I'd never expect to charge my day rate from those cities in Asia, it's all about economic comparison

[SenseVision]

I compared many jobs and occupations on different levels (not specially photography) with salaries and rates in Europe (not the US). For low to medium experienced photographers in Thailand I'd divide european rates by 3 to 4 considering the standard of living and depending on the currency rates. The 15'000 Baht per day are within - but on the lower side - of this range.

The question comes up if Thailand always needs the same level in terms of quality and experience as we ask for in our countries, an experience I have to deal with in different business activities. With 100'000 to 200'000 Baht per day your rates are probably in the upper class of most countries of the western world as well and seem hardly comparable with the average.

Markus

[ckilkus]

Yeah, that thing about the stylists calling the shots in Bangkok is rather strange too.  It's supposed to be a collaboration between client, photographer, stylist and hair make-up. But it seems clients here just put everything in the hands of the stylists.  Giving the thai stylists complete control over the look of a shoot is a mistake, and it's a big part of why photographers in Thailand are not well resepected by clients.  And on top of it, the stylists here are generally not good and even if they are, it seems like their taste level is about two to three years behind the times!