Photography Thailand Forum

[David Procter]

I couldnt work and live where i live without motorcycle taxi drivers - i use them four times a day and they cut a potential nightmare journey considerabley. I walk past these chaps most days on the way to work.
I converted to bw using the channel mixer and I'm experimenting with dodging and burning at the moment. Does anyone have any tips for dodging and burning?

[Marc Schultz]

Great shot David. I like how none of the motorcycle drivers are overlapping and that space down the center just leads you right into the photo. The DOF is great as with the contrast in B&W. I always think good Bangkok street photography looks best in B&W. I also wish people would post more stuff like this in the Forum. It is really the essence of the city we live in.

As for technical comments, I would suggest applying a bit more USM to the photo to make it just a bit crisper. The focus is spot on, but it could be a bit sharper with a bit more USM. I would also lose that 3-4 point black ring you put around the photo. I also think having such a wide white border is not necessary. 20-40 pixels wide is enough I think. But this is just a subjective opinion of course.

You asked about dodging and burning; I don't do that so much anymore if it only requires a little bit. What I do instead is use a levels adjustment layer and mask out the area that needs the adjustment. Why do I do it this way? Well, if you dodge and burn most people do it onto the background layer, which is an irreversible change to the image and what is known as destructive PhotoShop because it destroys your original underlying image. Other people copy the section they want to dodge or burn to a separate layer and do it there so as not to effect the original image, but this increases the file size of the image, which is also not good. Any levels adjustment layer can always be removed again later and wont increase file size very much, if at all so it is better than both of the previous techniques from a non-destructive Photoshop workflow approach. If you want to find out more about using adjustment layers and masking you can read an article I wrote about it in the Articles section.

I played with it bit in Photoshop by adding a bit more contrast and adjusting levels a bit, as well as adding a bit more sharpening. You may not like what I have done with it, but this is how I would have processed it if it was me.

By the way, how did you crop this? The aspect ration does not match any of the typical 2:3 or 3:4 ratios.

Anyway keep up the great work!

[David Procter]

Marc, thanks very much for the comment and the work done on the image. I feel like I'm almost learning to see again at the moment, particularly in black and white. I did feel there was something that wasnt quite right with my image and I think your reworking has sorted this out. I think i was quite happy with the original tones but the cripsness is definately improved and more of the frame is accessable (of that makes any sense). I'm on a pretty steep curve (no pun intended) with photoshop and will check out your article on layers. I think its important to develop your own style but appreciate that a mastery of what can be done is vital.
Cropping is another area I'd like to improve my awareness of. I prefer to get the crop done as i shoot but in this case i was a little rushed as these guys are busy people and find it strange enough a farang wants to take pictures of them anyway, so I concentrated on gtting the DOF and focus right in the two shots i took. i didnt then crop to any aspect ratio and cropped close to the left and right and took some of the sky out.
Thanks again!

[Marc Schultz]

Your welcome David and glad you found some of my comments useful.

On cropping, I would stick with typical aspect ratios of 2:3 or 3:4 on landscapes and portraits rather than cropping based on what you feel is needed and not needed in the photo. You can always blur areas out a bit of you think they are a bit distracting, but this way at least your pictures will look a bit more balanced compositionally.

You can use the rectangular marquee tool to crop and when you select the tool you will see a drop down menu underneath the main menus where you can set it to crop using an aspect ratio. There you put the numbers you want for aspect on length and width.

Maybe take the original image and play with cropping it at different aspect ratios to see what you can come up with.

Hope this helps.

[katjuschka]

I really like that picture (as well the reworked version by Mark)!!!

And I am agree with his point of view that more of these pictures are necessary at the forum. For myself, I prefer more the shots of objects (or everything not humanlike). Especially here I have no idea how the people will react and consequently your shot maybe is over when you ask them first if you can take a picture of them. (Otherwise I just have my basic equipment with me. That means I left my macro-objective at home, my favourite for taking portraits of someone...)

However, go on. I like your style.

P.S.: Can you tell me in which area of Bangkok you took the shot???

[murray]

Just to promote discussion.... a different take on cropping. 

I crop every image individually to what I think is best and I personally do not believe in any "rules" about cropping... or for that matter "rules" about much of anything else about one's individual photography technique / style for that matter.

No doubt in looking at various images you will see the application of many of the "rules" that you will find in photo books, but that does not mean they work each and every time and you may find that some of your images need there own "rules".  There are some people who never. ever crop an image -- these are the ones who always have a black border of the edge of the negative on their prints to prove they did not crop the image.  That is fine for them, but perhaps not for you.

In the long run I think it's the final image that matters -- not how you got there.  Basically, if the image works for you who cares if you broke a few so called "rules" along the way.  I think you will have more fun with photography if you are not always trying to apply a "rule" and just let it happen.

Good shooting.

Steve

PS.  I also quick burned some of the background highlights down a bit.

[David Procter]

Thanks for the interest in the pick. Kat, these guys work of Rama iv on soi ngam dupli.
Murray, thanks for having a go at the crop. I considered such a crop but felt the additional information with the details of feet and cycles in the background were important because the rider's bikes at the front were not visible.
Cropping is an interesting topic for debate. I really like to compose my shots in camera but i often just crop out distractions. The aspect ratio is important  i guess because the eye is particularly comfortable with those proportions which will in turn do justice to your photograph. thats why widescreen televisions and cinema screens keep to these ratios.

[David Procter]

Also, it always better to know the rules then really break them!

[Marc Schultz]

Steve makes some good points about developing your own style and I agree in general about doing things the way you want, but as you said, it is better to know the rules before you break them. At least this way you know how far you are pushing the envelope.

And if people challenge your style in a technical way you will have already considered what the image would have looked like following conventional techniques and will be ready to tell them why you took your own approach.

Also, a lot of photography comes down to making communication with your viewers and I have seen lots of very creative work that doesn't communicate well and which I feel fails to be effective in certain ways without a certain degree of clear communication.

Anyway, sorry for getting a bit philosophical here. Everyone's approach is different, and there is no right or wrong, just a subjective difference in styles really.

The crop that Steve put on the image though is a panorama crop of about a 2:1 aspect ratio. It is another alternative and a fairly common aspect ratio I often apply to my images as well if I feel it works for that image.

I did not suggest it though for this image for the same reason as you mentioned, I basically felt it reduces the story the images portrays just a bit too much.

[anna]

I always enjoy looking at photos taken of people on the streets, be it in Asia or Europe.  David, I like your subject, too, because those motorcycle drivers are an integral part of Bangkok.  As a beginner in Photoshop, it is interesting to see photos posted and the comments thereafter. 

I used to crop a lot without regard to ratios, until a teacher said it is best to compose during the shot if you could do it so there would be less or no cropping at all during the "fixing" stage.  So far, it seems to be working for me (less or no cropping).  Now that I am comfortable using the aperture, when I shoot I just blur the background that is unwanted BUT could not be cropped. 

Two attached photos I took somewhere in the Monk's Bowl Alley where I got lost.  I took this picture for the reason to see how I could work with highly contrasted subjects, which has always been my problem.  Background is washed out and foreground too dark, except for the dressed chicken hanging.  They say to compromise.  How would you have done it?  Comments, please. 

In another dark alley, there was a tiny light filtering through a makeshift shade.  Light was hitting the old man's hands.  I like the subject and the lighting but I know it could be shot better than I did.  Please let me know how you would have done it...... maybe not centered the hands too much? 

Both shots were taken months ago with my old Canon G5, in color, then saturated in Photoshop. 

Also, Katj, about your question on photographing Thais.  In my experience shooting 7 or so cities in Asia, I found the Thais to be camera friendly of all.  They are always delighted when you show their photos on the screen.  For those accessible, on my next trip to that same area, I give them copies of the photos.  I get permission whenever possible.  Sometimes you have to talk to them (sign language with a big smile) so they get comfortable; otherwise, they give you this stiff pose.  I do enjoy working with them.  As for your "nonhuman objects" you said, it would still be interesting to see them - that way the forum would have a diversified group of subjects.  Perhaps you could share?   Thanks.  Anna

[anna]

Sorry, I made the previous photos too big.  I thought I made them small enough.  Anna