Photography Thailand Forum

[Marc Schultz]

I would like to start a discussion for people's thoughts and ideas about what they experienced during our photo outing last Saturday. It would be great to hear some feedback from the people that attended the outing as I am now considering arranging another Bangkok street photo outing like this in early January. It would be great to hear what you might have learned or gained from the experience, as well as any questions you have now, or technical problems or challenges you encountered with shooting that day. All of this will be great feedback to have as it will help others who attended the outing to possibly understand more about what we all shot on the streets that day and which will hopefully spark new ideas and help others improve their street shooting skills. The floor is yours now...

[Mark Standen]

Hi everyone, it was great to participate in this outing and really great to meet everyone also. Street photography is challenging, as I see it, everything moves around you fast in a state of constant flux. Marc focused us on using the wide angle lens for this outing and so this in itself is challenging. Given an open brief it is sometimes hard to focus on one particular thing. It is a case of looking and seeing as you move along for something that catches your eye and then reacting quickly enough to capture the moment. Light is never perfect in this situation so higher ISO settings are needed. We are moving from bright surroundings to shade, constantly changing as we walk down the city footpaths. Having one lens attached to your camera and being set a brief does however give you a bit more focus. It pushes you to use what is fixed and forces creativity. Generally speaking the majority of wide angle shots to be taken in this situation are probably being close up to a subject with an interesting complementary out of focus background ie Marc's image of the picture of The Monarch, or a subject/subjects quite close to the camera that forms a good composition such as Marc's pictures of the boys. So in this case, using the wide angle is getting close to the subject. One additional type of shot is using the wide angle to capture a wider scene, Marc's shot of the traffic, but unless you have the right kind of scene with lots going on (chaos perhaps) then this kind of image will be more difficult to compose. Reaction is critical to the shots, you have to be quick, the scene will change in moments, so it helps to be prepared with the settings on your camera in advance, always checking the light. It helps tremendously to try and anticipate what is going to happen in advance, so you need to look and think a lot about a particular scene, perhaps wait for a person to walk past in the right position etc. That's all for now, feel free to ask me any questions and again, both Lalida and myself really enjoyed the outing. Cheers Mark

[David Salmanowitz]

Agree with Mark it was great to meet the people who made it to the outing. Street photography can be challenging, but when one can nab a good shot then obviously well worth it. Wide angle definitely gives a different perspective than a longer focal length that isolates whatever element one chooses to. With wide angle one is responsible for a lot more in the frame. As Mark noted, anticipation is everything--it can make the difference between a so so shot and a killer pic. I will always try to work a scene but if I feel it is not working I will just move on to something else that hopefully will work. One thing I always look for is a great background and will just set myself in one spot and wait for people to pass. Though much of what we saw was a cluttered background that wall in the alley we were in is what I am trying to point out (see Alex's photo). I am always looking for walls, especially of a nice color that can offset the subject matter.
Look forward to when we can all meet again!

[agitlits]

I agree with what has been said by Marc, Mark and David. I found the outing tremendously stimulating and enjoyable. It was well worth the trip for me. I got to meet very friendly people as well as pro photographers I've been looking forward to meet for a long time. A lot of pro photographers I met in the past can come across as less than friendly and a bit up themselves, but this was not the case here at all! It was really refreshing. People were more than happy to share their skills. A place such as BKK, and especially China town are a perfect place for this kind of photography but is also very challenging as it's hard to find clean background or make cluttered background appealing. Using a wide angle lens forces you to be thinking on your feet. I like being limited to one type of lens as you can concentrate on just taking photos with what you have, as Mark mentioned. It's good to have meetings where there is a theme to be followed. Maybe next meet can be dedicated to candid street portraits just to vary things a bit and a restricted focal length to say 80-200 mm - just a thought. I wish I was living in BKK like you guys. I will be in LoS in beginning of January but don't think I will be in BKK at the time. Anyhow, my thoughts will be with you - till next time!

[Marc Schultz]

Thank you all for the great feedback. That is really fantastic and it sounds like people came away with some new experiences and ideas from it, which is great.

Reflecting back on the outing, it kind of reminded of the idea of being in a group of tactical experts. We descended upon an area, hit it hard and fast, and moved on quickly. It was a lot of fun in that way. We moved in force and, if there was something good, we attacked it. If there wasn't we kept moving.

I still have an image in my mind of when we first got off the boat and there was that guy sprawled out asleep across his motorcycle. Instantly about 10 of us surrounded him and took lots of pictures of him all from different angles. In less than 5 minutes we were done and he didn't even realize he was being photographed and that tens of pictures had been taken of him until most of us had already moved on. Very Henri Cartier-Bresson style and was a great example of the art of street photography. Henri used to say that by the time the subject discovered that he was taking their photo, he would have taken their photo and already be gone. If he was discovered before he took the shot then the fleeting moment was lost.



I also think the outing gave people the experience of what it is like to be a journalist in an ever changing situation where nothing is constant with people, things, and everything changing very quickly. Very exciting! You have to be fast and think quick and it pushes your creativity and senses to the limit as Mark said.

In the end I think all of this was great practice for everyone. The next outing I will probably be announcing soon, but it will be a similar style where it teaches you to think quick, open up your senses, and interact with your environment for getting the best results out of a scene or situation.

Again, thank you all for coming and to Mark, David, and Alex for all giving some great feedback so far. More feedback from others who joined the trip and their impressions will be great to hear as well. Please let me hear from some the others in the group too.

[Gregg Spradling]

As others have said, it was really nice to meet everyone. I was impressed how everyone was so nice. It didn't matter if you were a noob like me or a pro, there was a common interest and everyone was happy to share.

I think the biggest factor I took from the trip is that composition is critical and one of the biggest things I have to work on. IMHO taking a technically correct photo is easy compared to taking one with the proper composition and an interesting perspective.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I didn't see anyone using fill flash. I had a shot I really loved but the girl's face is nothing but a dark shadow due to the hat she was wearing. I can fix a bit in LR2, but I wished I didn't get so excited and try to grab the shot without thinking first.

It would be really nice to have another in January. I promise to stay close to the group and not get separated next time.  

[Mark Standen]

Hi Gregg, I think you are right about composition. I'm not so technical, but say, technical enough to record something I see to share with others. It's hard walking down a busy street in a short amount of time and trying to capture something special and capture it well enough to be happy to share it. I guess being well set up with knowing the light situation and looking and seeing what is happening around you is the main thing. I work very much with looking and seeing, the shooting and capturing side is much less than the looking and seeing in my line of photography. This street exercise is only one aspect of photography, there are many facets to this subject, but at the same time, this group exercise has, I believe, been successful as there seems to be a lot we can learn from it and I certainly did, and would be very happy to join in another group exercise to learn more.

[Marc Schultz]

Gregg- Many thanks for your thoughts and feedback from the outing. I think Mark said it well, but I just thought I would add something about "technically correct" shooting. I think the key is to learn the basic principles of what is a technically correct shot and, more importantly, why it is technically correct. Meaning, it is technically correct for a reason (not just because someone decided it was) and that is because it follows the principles of light and composition which are broadly understood to give the most visual impact, draw the viewer in, or simply just look right to the human eye. It is like being a painter, there are certain rules of composition, color and lighting and there are ways of creating a painting and placing of subjects which follow the ways in which the human eye sees and observes things. So once you know those principles, have applied them, see that they do work and in practice how they work, then you can start throwing them away. A few will become second nature and from that you will start to develop your own style. So for example, when I shoot it is no longer a matter of trying to shoot technically correct as much as it is the elements of composition, lighting, mood, framing, orientation, and the isolation of the subject of interest that are all things that just come together as you are getting ready to pull the shutter. The more you do something obviously, the more it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it much anymore. So it is just a a matter of practice and experience and eventually becomes second nature rather than a thought process each time.

[David Salmanowitz]

Gregg--Mark said it very well. I was going to use the analogy of playing a musical instrument but perhaps even simpler would be riding a bicycle or driving a car. Once you know the basics you really do not think about them but automatically perform them. Just remember to keep having fun, and photography is that. Sometimes you might get frustrated or seem to hit a plateau, but keep shooting and you will always rise above it and your photos will always be getting better. BTW, I rather see a photo that might be technically incorrect but moves and affects me than one that is technically perfect but leaves me cold.

[Marc Schultz]

Good advice David. Always try and love what you are doing with photography (even if you have been shooting for 9 hours and taken 900 shots already as I did yesterday and want to pack up and go home) because that love will shine through in your work.

2 things told to me once by a great photographer when I first started shooting on the subjects of composing, cropping, and shooting in general:

1 - Only capture what is beautiful.
2 - Your best shot ever is always still to come.

Sometimes when we get advice from people it seems so simple and obvious that it kind of flows through us rather than into us. When I look back though, those 2 principles make up the basis of all that I ever really needed.

[agitlits]

1 - Only capture what is beautiful.
2 - Your best shot ever is always still to come.

Very true, Marc. Re. no. 2 Sometimes I ask myself, if for some reason I couldn't take any photos from now on would I be happy with what I've taken and the answer is no. The best is yet to come...

[Marc Schultz]

Right Alex don't ever think you can't do better than you have already done because you can and it also means you shouldn't ever get discouraged because your best shot is still yet to come.

[Marc Schultz]

That's true David, a technically correct photo does not always make it aesthetically pleasing. But if it is terribly composed, but still draws you in, then you have a winner :)

[David Salmanowitz]

Marc--Liked the quotes. These are from the brilliant Jay Maisel.

"Garbage in, garbage out. If it doesn’t look good in the view finder, it ain’t gonna get better by passing through the camera."

"If it doesn’t excite you The thing that you see Why in the world Would it excite me?"

[Gregg Spradling]

great comments and advice all around. thanks guys