Photography Thailand Forum

[Paul Whitehead]

This morning a lot of the webboards are carrying copies of articles and some vdo of the the new Nikon D700 - looks to be essentially a D3 in a D300 body with more of the d3 controls added. looks pretty sweet and at (probably) 3000 US not a bad buy either. A contender for the 5D - or its replacement. With the D4 announcement set for August its looks like being a gear heads year as I am sure Canon will trump Nikon again and very soon!

[epixx]

This seems to be the "must have" camera of the year. Impossible to avoid for any Nikon shooter, and a really hard nut for all other camera manufacturers, not least for Canon. Considering that the 24MP D4 (or whatever it will be called) and a 12MP D90 (or something) will probably be released later this year, Nikon is really pushing hard now.

Since Canon has renewed all of their models except the 40D and the 5D the last 12 months, they'll be hard challenged to counter this on all fronts. And behind them is Sony, who is rumoured to launch another two or three models this year, including a D700/5D competitor. Interesting times indeed  :)

[Marc Schultz]

This thread has the makings of another C vs. N debate, which is fine, but I will leave that aspect of it alone. What is interesting to remember though is that certain "new to the game" manufacturers are still not viewed by competitors by these two major brands. So the likes of Sony are not really a threat to the main players I don't think. The other thing I believe is that C & N only really are in competition with one another at the low end, maybe their first and second tier cameras. I say that because that is where the highest number of sales in the market exist and where consumers are still undecided about brand and are liable to go either way or possibly to one of those other brands that are trying to bite off a bit of the fat. But at the higher level models people are already pretty much committed to a brand and are deciding if it is worthwhile to upgrade their body to the next model up or to stick with the same model they have at that point. So even if you have one brand, and the other brand comes out with something better, you don't have to worry because your brand will also match that model of the other brand with something pretty soon. So the people that end up switching brands are usually the ones who are trigger happy. No reason to compare one against the other anymore. Both will eventually offer the same thing. The bigger decision is if buying the next model adds enough value to warrant an upgrade at that point or not.

But yes interesting times. I think a gauge though for any market pressure as being anything significant to the major players or not is if you see them seriously dropping prices. If not, then I think it means they are not really worried about the new competition. And so far it seems as if they aren't 

[olibkk]

Regarding to the D4, hope the upgrade won't be a D3 killer. Nikon sold us the D3 with "drums and trumpets" and only a year later a new beast is showing off... Nikon fool his customers and I don't want to hear about the competitive market with high end SLR. I should have gone with Canon...

[bjorn slis]

"So the people that end up switching brands are usually the ones who are trigger happy" what a strange conclusion Marc
"Nikon fool his customers " another one I really don't understand

For a couple of years now I hear Nikon doesn't have the camera to compete with canon (full frame, noise in high iso etc) now they come with some seriously good camera's, if I read the reviews right the D3 is certainly not a lesser camera than the Canon, and now I read all kind of negative comments.
What if the D4 is a D3 killer who cares when you are happy with your D3 ?
And when you have only switched to Canon because Nikon didn't have a good enough pro-body, why wouldn't you switch back now that they do ?

[Paul Whitehead]

"No reason to compare one against the other anymore. Both will eventually offer the same thing. The bigger decision is if buying the next model adds enough value to warrant an upgrade at that point or not. "

I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head, Marc.

[Marc Schultz]

Thanks Paul, and that is the whole basis for my point which relates to consumers being trigger happy. That is when you have people switch brands midstream before the brand they are already heavily invested in has a chance to match the latest technology that just came out from a competitor. Be patient, wait it out, and your camera will come. And think about how far and fast we came already when it was only 7 years ago that the best thing available was a 3MP DSLR for US$3,000. And that camera produced only an 8MB image which was full of noise and chromatic aberration, but, back then, we certainly thought it was the cutting edge!

[olibkk]

"So the people that end up switching brands are usually the ones who are trigger happy" what a strange conclusion Marc
"Nikon fool his customers " another one I really don't understand

For a couple of years now I hear Nikon doesn't have the camera to compete with canon (full frame, noise in high iso etc) now they come with some seriously good camera's, if I read the reviews right the D3 is certainly not a lesser camera than the Canon, and now I read all kind of negative comments.
What if the D4 is a D3 killer who cares when you are happy with your D3 ?
And when you have only switched to Canon because Nikon didn't have a good enough pro-body, why wouldn't you switch back now that they do ?

I think you misunderstood my reply... Not only I was not blaming the camera, I love my D3 but I was not taking the case against Nikon very seriously. But when you have invested into expensives tools and few month later the manufacturer is launching a new product with not only a break on your equipment value but possibly with also drastic changes, you may not feel very... "happy"... Unless you can afford to buy new toys every year.

[bjorn slis]

@olibkk
Same thing happened to me buying a macbook, a week after i bought it not only a newer model came out but they also dropped the price. I'm still happy with the laptop, I bought it because I thought it was a good computer for a good price, that didn't change. And buying this kind of equipment you know that new models come out every couple of months, also the value of it drops as soon as you take it out of the box, but don't you buy it to use it not to sell it ?

[olibkk]

Once again... It's just a "feeling", it's not exactly a philosophical break-up line to me. To answer your question... I buy to use it. When it's time to upgrade my equipment, I sell it.

[epixx]

Marc, I think you are wrong about how fast some pros change gear. A year ago, you hardly saw any sports photographers using Nikon. I did a count from some of the photos of photographers at the European football championship, and I saw around 50% Nikon-shooters. And the D700 is just the kind of camera that can make more pros switch. It may be looked upon as a 5D competitor, but with the vertical grip, it's capable of 8fps, almost as fast as the 1DIII (or the D3). In addition, it has all the most important features from the D3 as well as from the D300, making it a more attractive option than both for the average pro.

For somebody upgrading from a beginner DSLR, and with little investment in expensive glass, these are things that may make him or her change brands. All the more interesting what Canon will come up with next of course, but it'd better be something good.

As for Sony, it's only a matter of time. They already have a lens line-up that can compete seriously with Nikon as well as Canon. The 24-70mm f/2.8 and 135mm f/1.8 are the best you can get, bare none, and with in-body IS, both of them are stabilised. Neither Nikon nor Canon offer that. They will apparently launch one or two full frame bodies within this year, and at least one of them is 24MP.

[olibkk]

A year ago, you hardly saw any sports photographers using Nikon.

The D2Xs have been very popular among sport and action photographers...

[Marc Schultz]

Marc, I think you are wrong about how fast some pros change gear.

Did I say anything about how often pros change gear?

[olibkk]

Here it comes the D700...


Main Features (nikon.com)


Nikon's original FX-format CMOS image sensor with 36.0 (H) x 23.9 (V) mm image size; 12.1 effective megapixels
Superior picture quality throughout a wide ISO sensitivity range of ISO 200 to 6400; can be set to ISO-equivalent 25,600
Incorporates Nikon's original EXPEED digital image processing concept
Continuous shooting speed is up to 5 frames per second with the included Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL3e, and up to 8 frames per second when using the optional Multi-Power Battery Pack MB-D10 and Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL4a/4 or eight AA-size batteries
Nikon's original Scene Recognition System, utilizing the 1,005-pixel RGB sensor, greatly improves autofocus, auto exposure and auto white balance performance
Active D-Lighting automatically compensates highlights or shadows while you shoot, creating images with natural contrast ? even in difficult lighting
Picture Control System for image finishing optimized to match individual preferences
3D Color Matrix Metering II for ideal exposures in almost any lighting situation
Multi-CAM 3500FX autofocus sensor module featuring 51 AF points offers fast, efficient and precise autofocus
Two Live View modes enable shooting while confirming subjects in the LCD monitor
3-inch LCD with 920,000-dot (VGA) resolution and a 170° ultra-wide viewing angle
Built-in flash with 24mm lens coverage and Nikon’s dependable i-TTL flash control
Magnesium alloy used for the exterior cover, rear body and mirror box reduces weight and provides rugged durability
Optional Multi-Power Battery Pack MB-D10 extends shooting capability, enhances stability, and provides the further shooting potential of added controls
Support for the Wireless Transmitter WT-4/4A (optional) enables direct cable-free image transfer to a compatible computer
Included Nikon ViewNX software makes browsing and organizing your images easy
Optional photo-editing software, Capture NX 2 allows users quick and easy photo editing

[Jeff Jarvis]

Hmmm, should I go for this or wait for the 24mp D3x this Xmass?