Photography Thailand Forum

[Ted Kuzemski]

Yeah! I'm finally coming to Thailand! I will be coming to Thailand/Cambodia at the beginning of January for a just over a few weeks to do nothing but take pictures of the region with my 5d, a few lenses, & my tripod. I need to book a hotel in Bangkok and have no idea where to stay. A friend has advised staying near the river, to have easy access to temples etc. One place I found on Wired Destinations is the Bossotel Inn for about $40/night. It is in the Riverside district, and I have no idea if it is close to anything other than the river. I would like to stay close to the action and near some good food/street vendors etc. While in Bangkok, I would like to shoot the Grand Palace, floating market, street photography, and some interesting "off the beaten track" type of stuff. I would really appreciate any hotel suggestions, and shooting location suggestions, as I haven't a clue where to go other than the obvious tourist locations listed in my lonely planet guide and online travel guides.

I will be in Bangkok for about 5 days, 1 day Ayuthaya, 3 days in Angkor Wat, 3 days Chiang Mai, 3 days Phuket. This is a preliminary itinerary, based on my research so far and I am open to other locations. I would also love to shoot some real old world, hill tribe type of pictures as well, if it can be fit in to my tight schedule. I am a professional photographer from Victoria, Canada, and I know that when tourists come here, they miss a lot of great photo locations that are not well publicized. I'm hoping to get some help from this forum to lead me in the right direction. Any advice would really be appreciated.

Cheers, Ted

[Chris Savery]

Hi Ted,
I'm from Victoria as well and have been in Thailand for 5 years. I have always stayed in cheap places though and it sounds like you are looking for something better. There are several hotel areas in Bangkok and they range in price from cheapest (where I stay) in Banglumphu (Kao San Rd. - can range from very cheap, tiny, noisy, to somewhat more, clean and quite nice actually) to much more upscale near the river or over in Sukhumvit  or Silom areas. If you are going to spend your time out taking photos and just crash at your hotel you may think about saving money and staying near Kao San Rd. It is close to the Grand Palace, museums, river and a few other attractions just north of the area. It has nightlife, lots of activity, street vendors etc. It is not the downtown mall type area and doesn't have any high end shopping experiences. For that you go over to Skuhumvit area, or to Siam. These are all well known spots around Bangkok. There are several well known night markets around town and many streets become swamped with sellers and food at night anyway. Silom - Patpong area is one night area and along Sukhumvit there are several. Depending on your tastes be warned that some of these areas can be quite seedy but you can keep moving if you find stuff that turns you off.

Bangkok has a very good and cheap taxi system so it is generally very easy to get around that way. Which area you stay in doesn't really matter that much if you plan to hit certain spots anyway. Avoid city travel in late afternoon especially in some busy areas as it can get bad even nowadays. Although taxi drivers can be bad you will find most of them fairly good. If you learn a few Thai words they will be inclined to treat you better. Not being able to say anything at all seems to make them more likely to scam you.

Grand Palace, Wat Po, Wat Arun - all popular spots, well covered by every single visitor to Bkk. Nothing wrong with that but I think if you are interested in something off beat you better plan for more time elsewhere. There are dozens of small neighbhorhood areas you can hit around Bkk for "street" type shots and of cultural interest. Fortunately, for the most part it is a safe city. Don't dress flashy, and feel free to wander around and shoot. People are generally quite friendly and easy to photograph here. I have often shot down near "Baklong Talad"  - flower market, or down in the Chinatown area. These can be interesting depending on what just happens to be happening any particular day. There are market stalls, street food vendors everywhere in Bkk so you will never have any trouble finding them. Don't be afraid of the street food. It is often very good, sometimes less so, but  always cheap, and if you get served something that doesn't work for you then it's no big loss to just move onto to something else. If you don't like spicy then learn to say "mai phet" - not spicy. Personally I like it spicy.

Looking for offbeat I would say just get out and explore - walk. You will find things around every corner, down every soi. I also enjoyed taking the express boat up to Nonthaburi. Lots to shoot along the river - sometimes. Other days I have had less luck. In January the weather is practically guaranteed to be good. Get out early before it gets hot. And with the 5D you can shoot late at night too as there is plenty of ambient light around town.

There's plenty to see and shoot around Bkk and Thailand. Hope this helps out a bit. Enjoy.
Chris :)

[Ted Kuzemski]

Thanks alot Chris!

This is all very useful information. The area you describe sounds just what I am looking for. I plan on sleeping in my room, and being out most of the time. I thought $40/night was fairly cheap, but if I can do better, that would be great! I was looking for a hotel with a room safe, so I can lock away my camera if I decide to go out without it. Can you recommend any hotels near Kao San Rd, or any place to stay away from? I will search for some on Wired Destinations. Also, can you recommend any night markets or floating markets that would provide some good shots? What part of town is the flower market?

I was also wondering if there are any specific vantage points to get a nice night shot of the Palace lit up at night, or will it be obvious?

Thanks again for the advice! If you have any other suggestions for locations at any of the other cities that I plan to see, I would be all ears!

Cheers, Ted

[Chris Savery]

There's a place I've stayed a few times near Kao San Rd, in behind the Wat on Soi Rambutree; named O'Bangkok. I have no idea if you can find them and book online. They cost about 600-700 baht/night, approx. $25. Clean, small room with hot shower, nice windows overlooking the Wat. There are others near there. If you spend about that price you get a decent room typically. In the busy season (Jan) you should try to book ahead a bit but even so it is possible to walk in at the right time of day and get a room. Rooms go as low as $150 baht/night around the area but at that price it's much like a cattle stall, shared toilet/shower but still often quite clean. I know because I have stayed at those places too but not recently. The airport express bus (AE2, I believe) goes very near this area and is very easy to catch in from the airport. With more than one person it's cheaper to take a taxi.
Now that room didn't have a safe but I think they had lockers behind the front counter. May or may not be adequate depending how you feel about it. I stayed over in Sukhumvit area once at a place with a safe, cost 2100 baht/night and it was nice to have a safe. Nicer room too but for me I can go a lot further on one third the price. You might check the Vientien Hotel near Kao San Rd. I think they run about 1500 baht and may have safes. I'm sure a few others do as well but I've not stayed at them. Lonely Planet likely has some info about that - the higher ranking ones in this area probably do. There are many, many not even in the book at all. I would personally not stay right directly on Kao San Rd - too noisy and busy. But some people thrive on that chaos. There are places on Rambutree and I saw a new riverside place just opened on Phra Athit also behind Wat Chanetsongkram away from Kao San a bit.

I've seen some nice photos of the Palace from across the river up high, likely from an apartment or tower but I have no idea how or when they got them. From the ground there isn't too much choice. In front of the Palace is a large oval field (well, I'd call it a parking lot nowadays) called Sunam Luang (Royal Field). You can walk around there and see what angles you can get. The palace is closed at night so you cannot get good night shots from inside the wall. I've been at Sunam Luang when they had big events with large cherry picker trucks present. I wanted to ask (bribe?) for a ride up to get photos from high up. Sounds like a good idea but I haven't done it. Just an idea if you see an opportunity.

Night markets:- Kao San Rd, Silom/Patpong, Lumphini Night Bazaar, near Baklong Talad is Saphan Phut, many others less known around but can't recall names off hand. Many stretches of road become a market at night.

3 main floating markets that I know of. Taling Chan near western edge of town across the bridge past Pinklao area - I think is a morning one but should check. The most famous for tourists I think is Damnoen Saduak a fair ways out of town but has many tours that will take you there. And less visited by farlang (that's us foreigners) is Amphawa, popular with Thai local tours - outside town near Samut Songkram, generally open 1 or 2 evenings, maybe Friday but check - see my photo tour here: http://www.pbase.com/csavery/amphawa. The popular one you usually see photos of is Damnoen Saduak.

The flower market is near Pahurat (little India, fabric market) area, which is kind of off one side of Chinatown / Sampeng. It is located just near the bridges known both as Saphan Phut  and Memorial Bridge. The market is busy from late night til early morning - a real beehive. During the day it's almost just another typical street albeit with some flowers still lingering. The next door Saphan Phut night market is a favourite of teenagers and is full of stuff of interest to them. I've never seen much I'd want there but it's a bit of a scene to walk around.

If you really want a daytime market that will have lots of scenic cramped market stalls and everything imaginable (hand made and clothing) for sale then you'd best head out morning time on Sat. or Sun. to Chatuchak (also known as "weekend") Market. By far the biggest in Bkk and the source for much western imported crafts etc. Near BTS (skytrain) station Mo Chit but easy by taxi or bus #3 air con from Kao San area.

I'd leave other cities to others who know them better. I know Phetchaburi quite well but it's hardly four star photo fodder. When you travel - if not by airplane then try the train - cheap, but need to book ahead in January. I'll take it any day over the headache inducing bus trips here.

Chris :)

[Ted Kuzemski]

Wow! Thanks Chris! What a great resource you are. You can't get this kind of info from a book. I will definately have plenty to keep me busy shooting. I have checked a few online services other than Wired Destinations, and there are not that many hotels listed online in the Banglumphu area compared to some of the other areas. I'm sure that if I just book any decent hotel, I will be able to look around once I am there, and move if I need to.

I was wondering if you would have any advice as to what Thai phrases may be useful to a me as a photographer & general traveler. I have checked out a few online free courses on thai language but it seems difficult to learn, as I keep hearing that it is a tonal language and pronunciation is difficult to learn. Any suggestions on what to say to get some good street photos of people? Is a warm smile enough, most of the time?

Cheers, Ted

[Chris Savery]

Usually people don't object to having their photo taken. If they appear to object I usually don't take it. A phrase I use sometimes is "thai roob len" - means "take photo for fun". My girlfriend told me that's enough to let people know you are just a hobbyist casually taking photos.

Thai is tonal and it is difficult for us to learn unless you have a naturally good ear for tonal distinctions and pick up languages easily. A word may be said in 5 or more different ways in Thai and have radically different meanings for each, but sound "almost" the same to us. I say almost because if we listen carefully we can hear it but we are not accustomed to listening for the tones and often make mistakes. Many words are like this but the classic one for beginners is "maa", which can mean: dog, come, horse, mother, soak, or bad depending on how you inflect the tones. Often I think I'm speaking with the tone I need but a Thai person just can't understand me. My girlfriend can  and then she repeats what I said and others get it finally. It can be very frustrating but it is worth learning some  words and phrases as the respect you get from locals will be much greater.

Below is a brief list off the top of my head of words to know for just day to day travel around Bangkok. I'm not adding tone marks as it's just too involved but there is also a good resource online at http://www.learningthai.com/ which I have used sometimes. Lonely Planet has some phrases and also a phrase book that is fairly good. You will find it very hard unless you make a real issue of practicing and I suspect that for a short stay you really won't get it until too late. Anyway, a few words can help despite this.

You will notice as Thai's speak that they end most sentences with "ka" or "khab". This is common usage and implies politeness. In fact, if you leave it off it's considered rude but as a farlang you will not (often) be expected to get it right anyway. For men, we append "khab" to the end and for women it's "ka". This is also an affirmative words as well used to acknowledge or show agreement or say yes. Listen to Thai's speak on the radio on the street and you can hardly miss that "ka, ka, ka" all the time. I used to forget it but I'm getting much better nowadays. Also there are various spellings for all these words in English, some pretty strange ones too. I'm just writing as I hear them. All usage below for men speaking.

sawwadee khab - hello, greeting
kop koon khab - thank you

bie - go
eg.
bie talad - go market, eg. bie baklong talad,  go to flower market, be polite add "khab" to every sentence.
bie satani rotbus - go bus station, not really correct but usually they get it.
bie satani rotfie - go train station
bie gin khao - go eat
bie banglumphu - go to banglumphu

when in the taxi you would open the door and inquire "bie banglumphu khab" and they would answer yes, no, or try to scam a fixed fare off you maybe. Taxis will often not want to go to certain area so if they don't then try another or if they want a fixed fare it's usually better to try another one as generally the fixed fare is much higher than a meter fare - usually, but maybe not always. At times when it's hard to get a ride you may be forced to using a fixed fare even though apparently it's not legal, it's common. Avoid being scammed by them if possible.

bie nie - where are you going? you'll hear this a lot as it's also a casual form of greeting.

leo sai - turn left
leo kwa - turn right, both useful in a taxi.

to ask where something is state the thing and then add "tee nie?"
eg.
taxi tee nie? - where is a taxi?
hongnam tee nie? - where is the toilet? (this one is really useful!)

taow rai - how much? again, say khab after, as in taow rai khab?

7-11 stores are eveywhere - if you want one then ask "seven tee nie?", they drop the eleven part here even though it's on the signs.

nam - water
nam keng - water rocks = ice
nam dang - "red" water mean cream soda
all things wet in thai seem to end with "nam"
abnam - shower
cha minow - ice lemon tea
cafe - coffee
yen - cold
ron - hot

mee - have
mee ...  mai - do you have? as in, mee khao neaal mai? do you have sticky rice?
mai mee - don't have

die? - can?
mai die - cannot

Oh, there's just so many and this is just beginning.
You'll have to hear others say the words to get the tones right.
I'm not that good myself but I live with a personal translator.
Hope that at least gets you started...
Chris :)

[Ted Kuzemski]

Thanks Chris,

I have always tried to learn some basic language skills in every country I have travelled to, and it has always paid off. You are right in saying that locals will treat you better if you at least try. I appreciate all the bits that you have given me here, although I do have a few basic pronunciation questions. Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

Is "thai roob len" just as it looks here? thai (sound like) tie? roob like rude? len like lens?
Is khab like taxi "cab", or corn on the "cob"?
Is bie like bye bye or bee?
Is nie & die the same as bie?

Cheers, Ted

[Chris Savery]

Ha, ha. Ya, always hard to tell from what I wrote.
Thai roob len - as you suggest there.
khab is in between cab and cob. you'll have to hear it first. sometimes they write it as krap, or krab. it's a blend of all these. unfortunately most of the thai sounds do not have an exact equivalent in English.
bie like bye bye, and the last two also similar.
I chose those words as they are so easy and yet very handy.
That web site mentioned has a feature where you can click on a button and it will say it so you can hear the pronounciation.
Chris :)

[kinginexile]

Hi guys,

Sitting at the next table, I couldn't help hearing your conversation... Do you mind if i barge in? :-)))

Ted,  The schedule as you arranged it is not going to set you in going off the beaten track too much.  Nothing wrong with that. It will be a feast to the senses and eyes just like that. But on the "human" subjects, that you know need a bit of background preparation and  longer type of approach to go a bit further than the rest, as for the hilltribes,  maybe that cannot be contained in such a hopping itinerary.  Except for Angkor, which is out of town, do not go crazy in respecting a schedule, leaving a place, a temple, too quick because there is another one to see and not that much time to linger. As they say, it's all in the journey, which also means in the commuting.  For ex. if going to Ayutthaya, take the train, 3rd class, arrive early, shoot around the station, on the platform, and there will be some interesting life in the car going there as well. Train is a great place to get to know a place and its people. So, the idea is to go places, yes, but walking sideways, like a crab, life happens this way over there, it pops out on you when you least expect it. I could say, not to stick the tourist normal itinerary (yours is pretty close to it), but why not, with acute vision, there is plenty of photo opportunities that need not be trite and deja vu. Try to check the Erawan shrine, it's free, open aired, just off a skytrain station, totally overdone, touisty as hell, , but you will love it still. they have dancers, people praying, encense burning,  the whole enchilada. Best light is around 4pm and on.  Also, do the bangkok noi trip, that's the big klong (canal) going out of town going along riversides, plenty to see that can seem like you went back 50 years in time.  Go by public boat, stop, wander around and take the next one back. The great thing about Thailand is that even when you are lost and seemingly in trouble, you are never stranded. This place quickly feels  like home, and people are one of the reasons why.

Thonburi , on the other side of the river, is a good place to explore, there are some old neighboroods,  like the (anciently) portuguese one, with narrow alleys and life going at a tenth the speed of crazy Bangkok. I'd buy the Nancy Chandler map, available in every book store. She put in it a plethora of information that is perfect to give ideas to the wandering photographer.

Etc...   

[Ted Kuzemski]

Thanks again Chris, and thank you Kinginexile for barging in... that's what forums are all about, the sharing of information, opinions, and helping out the next guy. Again, I can't thank you guys enough. This information will go a long way to make my trip that much more memorable!

Chris, I have not had a chance to explore the web site yet, but I will. I will likely explore language for Cambodia as well, at least a few basics.

Kinginexile, thanks for sharing the locations and the insight. I totally agree with what you are saying, and I will try to "move sideways" as much as possible. Since this is a first time visit to the region, I really have based my itinerary on seeing the "must see's", but I know that most of the best photos are usually off the beaten track, or at least, one should try to look at things that have been shot a million times, in a different way. That is what I hope to do. Thonburi sounds like the type of place that is right up my alley. Thanks for that one, and I will definately check out the Erawan Shrine. It sounds like there will be many photo op's in one place. Thats great. The map is a great tip as well.

When I visit Ayuthaya, you mentioned catching the 3rd class train. Just wondering why? Is that the cheapest? best way? easiest? I have seen a few pictures taken there, and was impressed with some of the night time photos taken with the temples all lit up. I'm not sure if there are trains returning in the evening, but it would be cool to stick around past sunset.

As I read through the Lonely Planet guide to Thailand, I find myself reading about several locations that I wish I could visit, such as some of the National parks, remote towns and villages, etc. It really sounds like a photographer could spend years in Thailand, and not run out of great things to explore. I only wish I had more time. After this trip is complete, I will likely want to return and spend more time than a few weeks.

Thanks for all the useful information, so far. I can't wait for January!
Cheers, Ted

[kinginexile]

Most likely, you will come back, so if you linger on in one place (Like Ayuthaya, if you stay til's sunset, best to stay overnight), maybe drop a chunk of it, lilke Chiang mai and the North, which deserves more than 3 days, to let things happen a bit.  Or even Angkor which will break up your discovery of thai ways, though that may be too much to ask...

The 3rd class trip is so you are really in touch with the way thais go about things, and with plenty of time (1 or 2 hours) to observe that, rather than furtively walking the street in a city. There will be kids, monks, giggling students, older friendly chaps, etc.... Whereas a westerner takes on himself to be patient and wait until he arrives to his/her destination, sometimes with impatience, thais tend to enjoy the journey, and if there is a delay, they make very little of it, because it's still the journey. It's the concept of sanook, to make things enjoyable and make the best of everything.

Sadly, what a contrast with the skytrain in Bangkok where thais become so listless, and resemble any other commuters in our big cities. 

Herve